"Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen" (distraxi)
12/28/2018 at 01:00 • Filed to: None
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"Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen" (distraxi)
12/28/2018 at 01:00 • Filed to: None | 0
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...but they sure last pretty good.
5 years, 40k miles, a dozen or so track days and they still have some tread left.
Last outing for them tomorrow, then it’s time for some new ones - 5 years is plenty old enough for track use, even though the car doesn’t work them very hard. Not sure what I’ll replace them with: pretty much anything would be stickier, but I don’t really care about lap times, and I don’t want to compromise the progressive breakaway which is the car’s great charm.
Also, apparently to cats an open engine bay is just an invitation to explore.
The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock
> Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/28/2018 at 01:10 |
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This is written by a person (who I know, & has taught me lots in performance driving), he is also the series champion 5 years running at the Auto-X series I run in.
http://thethrottlehouse.com/dont-get-rid-of-your-primacy-tires-wear-them-out/
Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
> Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/28/2018 at 01:36 |
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These have more tread than my 4C’s rear tires at 10k miles.
WRXforScience
> Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/28/2018 at 02:16 |
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If you’re primacies look that good after the track, you aren’t driving hard enough. The stock 86 is significantly camber limited so your shoulders should be chewed up (at least in the front). They howl when you’re working them, if they were quiet you weren’t anywhere near the limit .
The Falken Azenis 615k+ or Hankook RS4 are great, progressive tires that’ll hold up well at the track (the Falkens are super consistent until they’re heat cycled, the RS4 isn’t far behind but has a higher overall grip and a slightly narrower window of optimum performance).
If you can’t find the limit of a 200tw tire, you should spend more time at the autox or with an instructor . There is no reason to track the stock tires once you’re skilled enough to drive solo. It’s just as easy to under or over drive a tire that’s worth tracking than one that’s a convenient excuse.
Better advice: get a second set of wheels and swap between autox/track tires and keep the OEM stuff for your daily driving.
If you’re at the track on the Primacy’s, you should be entering corners fast enough to get corner entry understeer, which you’ll fix with some trail braking, then on corner exit you’ll add a pinch of counter steer to keep the back end in check (if you don’t have to make corrective inputs throughout the corner you weren’t going fast enough and you won’t find speed driving slow) . Do it right and you can drive around the terrible tires. You might polish your skills but you could end up learning terrible habits. You’d be better off practicing during wet, cold, or rain sessions.
200tw tires aren’t slicks and they won’t keep you from learning car control. It’s easy for novices to jump to sticky tires to cover up poor driving (RE71r’s are like a cheat code for autox), but committing to running the Primacy’s for more than one or two events will hamper your growth. Those tires were chosen for fuel economy and to allow the car to kick out the rear on the street at low speeds, neither is conducive to track driving.
The single greatest skill you can learn at the track is being able to feel and find the limits of grip of a set of tires. If you can’t drive to the limit of whatever tires you’ve got on your car, all your other skills amount to little more than window dressing.
The most common mistakes new people at the track make are:
1. turning in too early (not using a late apex)
2. over braking (usually using too little brake for too long)
3. not looking far enough ahead ( not looking through corners and past the next car)
4. being unaware of how much grip they have (either over or under driving, usually both at different points on the track)
5. lacking track awareness (missing flags or not checking mirrors)
The track is a poor place to learn basic car control, go do some autox and save yourself enough money to afford some real tires. A season of autox costs the same as a single trackday and there is no better way to learn car control than autox. I recommend 3 seasons of autox before you head to the track, that’s usually long enough to get your butt dyno calibrated and hone your car control skills. After that it’ll take 3-5 trackdays to become proficient, 10-15 to become competent, and 15-20 to become justifiably confident.
Sorry for the rant, but I’ve seen too many 86's driven way under the limit on the OEM tires at the track in the guise of ‘getting a feel for the chass is’. Once you’ve learned patience to wait out the understeer, there isn’t much more to get out of the Primacy’s. T he car is superbly neutral with real tires, you’ll want some camber to keep them wearing evenly (about -3 degrees in the front and -2 in the back is the ballpark you should be aiming for).
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Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
> WRXforScience
12/28/2018 at 02:48 |
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Don’t jump to conclusions too fast. M y previous toy was a Group A Holden Commodore which I raced in historic muscle and saloon car series. I have a rough idea what I’m doing.
If you’re not actually competing , making a car faster just leads to bigger more expensive mistakes, hence while I’m taking a break from racing my track toy is something slow with not a lot of grip. I’m perfectly happy with that, the only times I’m trying to beat are my own. I f I wanted more speed I’d go back to something with a cage, horsepower and slicks, I wouldn’t mess around m odding the 86. I enjoy driving round it s limitation s : cars that are either on rails or through the hedge are no fun.
Those are the rear tires - the fronts have more tread but yes, are pretty chewed up on the shoulders. And yes, they do howl. I don’t find them particularly understeery though, if the pressures are right, except late in the day on a hot day: they don’t like getting too hot for too long, like most road focused tires.
As to whether they “should” look that good after the track - YMMV. I’ve always been easy on tires, even when I was racing, but more likely it comes down to track surface and temperature, and session duration.
SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
> Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/28/2018 at 05:04 |
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Kiwi roads must be very gentle...most of the drivers aren't!!
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Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
> WRXforScience
12/29/2018 at 01:13 |
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Just got back from the track. Are you seriously saying you’ve seen people on Primacies not working them hard enough to get them howling?
I knew they were noisy, but I’d never really paid attention to just how slow you have to go to keep them quiet. Jesus, my grannie drives faster than that! N o wonder you were ranting about it.
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WRXforScience
> Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
12/29/2018 at 13:34 |
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Yes, once the back steps out they back off and drive on the prius tires while trying to eliminate any rotation or push. Very frustrating to watch and even more frustrating to coach someone who’s afraid to approach the limits of grip with a low grip tire.
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Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen
> WRXforScience
12/29/2018 at 16:02 |
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Getting the back to step out’s the whole point, innit? :-)